UPDATE On the Street.......Brown In Milan, Italy
Today, I found this photo that I took this past summer and never published. I told you this guy is slick!Almost 100% sure it is him--the shirt collars are the same. (How else do you think a Sartorialist would ID someone?)
Comments on "UPDATE On the Street.......Brown In Milan, Italy"
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post a commentwow, serious suit.
Is that puckered effect on the front edges of the jacket intentional? It appears at first glace like bad tailoring....
Absolutely fabulous clothing. The fit is perfect and the brown suit with the purple tie is great. The hair, not so much.
i agree with deja. but the fabric is so nice, one has to assume it's intentional...especially in Milan.
-b
i also associate puckering with men who launder their own cotton dress shits and use the "high" or "cotton" setting in the dryer.
beautiful suit-ATWR
He looks like something out of the 40's or some other era. I like the overall look. However he needs to show some cuff and I don't understand the puckering either. Is it pick stitching that is exaggerated?
wow. just. wow. brown 3-piece suit + purple tie + light blue shirt = perfection. great attitude too. and please, styleforum members, don't freaking say anything about lack of shirt cuffs! give it a rest, 'k?
the puckering is because he doesn't dry clean his suit but rather either use a home steaming unit or leaves the jacket in the bathroom while he showers. either way, it looks great and makes the jacket last longer.
Well, well, well. There's no reason why a brown suit can't work, and this guy makes a good though not entirely successful case for it.
However, the suit--or at least the jacket--is poorly made, see the puckering along the coat edge.
In addition, the vest is too short...and the collar too large--there's a gap between his neck and it--and, for me, too stiff (notice how tightly its fabric is stretched).
Hope this doesn't sound too ungenerous, but....
That has to be the nicest suit you posted in a while. Great scouting :)
Oh, it's Robert Duvall in the Godfather.
Divine!
Wonderful tailoring, fabric and colour. I think it is intentional as well. Classic.
the purple tie w/ the brown is amazing.
will i ever see something so perfect in america?
it's probably more of that "antiqued so we can charge you more" bullardo.
and what up with the Italians and the high pant cuff for men's suits?
The puckering is absolutely intentional, a result of handwork pick stitching on the lapels.
This chap's style is extremely distinctive......everytime you've shot him, he has always had a very traditional flavour to outfits.....Thumbs up!
hey, this is Carlo Montanaro, editor of Style magazine, the finest gentlemen's publication in Italy and probably up there with anything in the US or UK. A sartorialist if ever there was one! (and the puckering is because the man loves his vintage suits)
Note to Sart: the best proof of your good instincts in capturing sartorially outstanding types is that you seem to run into him anytime you wander around Italy. Milan or Florence, summer or winter, you always end up posting a new edition of Montanaro. congratulations! keep it up.
ciaofrommilan
Isn't it interesting that blog readers, who presumably are attentive in matters of real style, can have diametrically opposite views of something that should be objectively non-controversial -- like whether this gent's front jacket seam is (a) a hallmark of fine hand-tailoring, (b) puckering from home steaming and therefore a good thing (you bad dry-cleaners!), or (c) a sign of the suit's being poorly made. I would like to hear from a real tailor about this, but I'm sure this puckering is not all caused by pick-stitching, which is what most of the admirers seem to think. Anyway, it looks awful. We can't just say that anyone Sart photographs who is wearing a suit looks splendid -- there have to be some sartorialist standards, and this guy, while trying, isn't doing all that well.
simple elegance....the best kind.
Love the cut of this gentleman's jib. Great 3-piece suit, nice tie dimple, even the haircut is sensible. He looks like a British novelist from the 1930s, one of Evelyn Waugh's chums, perhaps? Well done.
is it really a purple tie? to me, it looks like a dark blue tie with small red dots, which would be a classic pattern.
the collar is not really nice. there shouldnt be any space between collar and jacket/vest. if it was a spread collar (cutaway) and the sleeves of the shirt were a bit longer, I would be jealous.
FYI
the suit was made for him by Loro Pianai and is very beautiful well made suit.
When i have asked people about dry cleaners in Milan for my SartoriaList I have heard more than one say that they steam their suits at home. I don't know if Mr. Montanaro does but it would not surprise me.
for me, the great thing about this photo is the colour of the suit matching so well with the shirt & tie, and how good a suit which is brown can look, especially in a 3-piece.
I skim over my disagreement with his wrist-area situation, and frankly admit ignorance on the 'puckering' issue (although to my untrained eye it looks like a problem rather than a quality hallmark ... and let's hope that the trend of having distressed denim won't transfer over into our suits, where the 'best' suits are intentionally imperfect to show how expensive they are ... ugh!)
As already mentioned above, he reminds me of Tom Hagen, consigliere to Don Vito Corleone. I wouldn't mess with him ...
wow. interesting comment thread.
it raises this question for me. are today's top-end suits as durable as the top-end suits of fifty years ago?
obviously the fabrics are lighter and therefore less durable.
i would like to know the age of this suit.
I just started working at a men's tailoring house - no menswear experience whatsoever - and was quite surprised to find out that the more puckery a suit is, the finer and more well-made it is. Who knew? Just think of all the clothes in Wal-Mart - cardboard stiff, no suppleness.
absolutly gentleman!
absolutly gentleman!
I really do like the slight rumple. Not just as an early century throwback thumbing its nose to new world mass production with time taken to attend to details, the masses of wealth and tradition that came before their intimate production. It's unexpected beauty and dimension subtley nodding back to those things. With a knowing flash of royal blue-purple.
that is not puckering but the mark of a handmade suit. Machine made suits are made to make you look like you are wearing body armour. The imperfections of a hand made suit is what perfection is all about. It's like a machine drawing a circle on canvas VS Monet drawing a circle by hand. It;s not easy to describe it. You all are just used to the machine made body armor with the heavy padding on the shoulders. If you look at a suit made by Anderson and sheppard you will find similarities.
Anonymous, they aren't talking about the pick-stitch. The fabric itself gathers and puckers, towards the edge of the suit (but not at the edge--which is the pick stitch).
that is not puckering but the mark of a handmade suit. Machine made suits are made to make you look like you are wearing body armour.
Well, you learn something every day. Thanks for the explanation.
Dovid is right. Pick-stitching does not produce ripples an inch or two back into the jacket! And, c'mon, this does NOT look good, no matter how one might admire suppleness and drape -- which this is not. Something has caused the outer cloth to expand or the inner lining to shrink, causing this problem.
Very few men can carry a brown suit in style....it reminds me too much of Rowan Atkinson's character Mr. Bean in his (awful)suits
Well, the Anderson & Sheppard website seems to be down for maintenance at the moment so I went to Henry Poole instead, (there's no finer tailor on earth). The pictures there show the _slightly_ uneven edges that result from hand-sewing a suit, but NOTHING (sorry to shout, but it's important) like the deep puckering shown here.
Sartorialist tells us it's a new suit, so it's not some age-associated problem ... it looks like water damage, maybe. Wore the suit out in a downpour? Overaggressive steaming? (it's quite correct to say you should avoid drycleaning a suit if at all possible). Can't say.
But again: big deep valeys like those in the picture are absolutely not the mark of fine tailoring. No way.
el traje es bonito, pero el cosido está mal rematado, las costuras tiran y hacen esas arrugas antiestéticas junto a los ojales y botones
For Anon 4:01 am
I don't remember saying it is a "new" suit.
I do think it is age related, I am almost 40 an I too have begun to pucker and wrinkle.
S
Sartorialist, you can fix that with the wonders of science. Get a face lift. BY God! what has the world turned into. I watch graceful women in their 40's 50's in buenos aires with their puckering mouths and their wrinkled skin, and their Ivory teeth. We have succumbed to the unecessary wonders of science with the straightened teeth all shined and honed to the brightest white there is. There is more beauty in the walls of pompeii than the candy alleys of stockholm. Bottom line, machine can never match the beauty of handwork.
everything, absolutely everything about this is so so perfect.
anyone ever seen a pocket square quite like this one?!
sorry! I saw "made for him by Loro Piana" & for some reason mentally interpolated the word "recently".
puckering & bagging can be a sign of quality in a person (Humphrey Bogart), but never in a suit ...
the color does work just fine as a suit color, though.
I dunno... I must tel you that all my Zegna suits pucker like that. The other handmade stuff doesn't, but all my Zegna--including the Couture XXX line--puckers like that. Maybe its like a trademark or something.
Either way, I don't mind it. I think it looks cool.
What's so special about the pocket-square? Also, note that the lapels don't really roll over. They are roled, but a bit too high, if you ask me...
oh my, beautiful. as far as the debate over the puckering, i love it because just from looking at it i know it was handmade, and taken care of in an old-fashioned, delicate way (eg steaming in the shower rather than nasty dry cleaning). it's like the japanese idea of "wabi-sabi". if the suit was too perfectly sewn it would have an air of impersonality that i don't find attractive. but then, i think it is a matter of personal taste.
Anybody who has ever owned a hand tailored italian suit with pick stitched edges for a period of time will be able to tell you very quickly that this happens with age! It is rather premature to assume its down to this or that without never having owned one for a period of time.
THE FIT AND THE CLOTH IS PERFECT. IS NOT PERFECT THE SEWING.
he looks very sharp. i love his expression.
haha, what a great word "puckering" is.
that pocket square is tremendous!
but to me that jacket looks a little small; i can really imagine him struggling to get it off and knocking over his home steaming unit ;)
It's times like this I wish there were no comment function... What's next, a suggestion box @ the Colosseum?
First off; the fit is nothing short of perfect.... The mark of not just a good suitmaker, but an astute pattern maker. It is old world elegance & timelessness par excellance.
The aforementioned 'puckering' is indeed a sign of a) NOT throwing the jacket on a huge pressing machine but hand steaming.
b) handsewn button holes - not machine stitched.
Which when combining these two factors, not to mention a floating hand canvas (read: no glue), you will get a 'pucker' particularly if it's a supple fabric.
The way he wears his suit on the first picture is just gorgeous.
He has a dangerous business going on. Slick suit, I must say.
Sart,
I never recalled you saying the suit was new either, nor would I ever be inclined to assume that especially in a country where the culture of bespoke tailoring is as common as RTW after holiday markdowns here. Gentlemen tend to have their handmade suits for generations. It is quite possible that this suit is over 20 yrs old. Bespoke is not just a means of dressing for them, it's a lifestyle.
Il signore has some mature sexy attitude!
Wow; I don't know the last thing about fashion but I just wanna melt into that brown suit. Wouldn't one just stare at it like fine jewelery when talking to this man?
The blue one...eh...he looks like he's going on a cruise to Acapulco.
mltt
it's robert duvall!! (circa godfather)
This is my grandfather, his Christian Dior three piece suits and all, with dark hair. I love it. Reminds me- gotta call him tomorrow!
You also posted a shot of him awhile ago on your first blog for mens.style.com on June 25th in the blue suit...
http://men.style.com/fashion/blogs/s2007men/2006/06/on_the_streetvi.html#comments
He looks great with the hat and the pleats.
All I can say is wow! He and his suit have been together for a long time and have developed a wonderful loving relationship. It is clearly handsewn and very well at that.
The blue/grey combo is straight out of Marcello Mastroianni per La Dolce Vita or 8 1/2.
i believe the word swanky comes to mind.
very nice
ID people by their shirt collars?? Hmmm...if you used the way they knot their tie or fold their pocket squares, it might look like two different people.
I love the confidence in his walk. So dapper, yet a hottie at heart. My German grandpa signs cards with a little combover on the "o" of "Opi". I lose no love for comb-overs.
no no no.. He's not Robert Duvall in The Godfather. He is The Godfather.
bye bye
rp
outstanding!
Old-schoolish items can completely make a look- in the first photograph, the hat, and in the second it's the waistcoat. Good ones.
Cleverly moment is more dram atic for itys context
the devinely suited and hatted and booted man
juxtaposed against a hustle and bustle of everyday
he really stands out as a Style guru
Ladies and gentlemen...the suit needs a good professional pressing....that's all. Steam may be a good temporary fix for a few wrinkles now and then, but it doesn't keep all the layers working together....it separates them.
Love your blog, Scott...stay warm in New York everyone!
so out of an indiana jones movie
Love the blue suit photo - it's straight out of a movie! (A stylish movie!)
He looks like King Edward, who gave up the throne for Wallis Simpson...?
Is that a Panama hat?
Pardon Mon Ami
My previous comment
Is just soooooo full of
spelling mistakes.......
Not the same guy--top photo guy dresses left and brownsuit dresses right.
maffia rules i guess?! i love how those italian man totally dress up just for a day.. the dutch men still has got sooo much to learn
I thought it was Michaek J Fox at first glance.
He is cool that is for sure.....only some people can carry off the hat
THX SAR!
The puckering come from the fact that the Lapel and the body of the suit are not fused hence the fabric floats on top of the canvas lining rather being stuck to it. It looks likes a first class suit to me.
that brown suit (on the bottom) is perfection.
Same mouth.
Who is this man & why is he so fabulous?
i thought the top pic was Michael J Fox! haha
but he is a standout - great suits and I love the hat!
Looks like french actor Alain Delon in "Le Samourai".
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/Alain%20Delon.jpg
http://www.facets.org/Images/cinematheque/delon/alain_delon.jpg
http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/10220000/10227216.jpg
gee, great looks
brown suit looks like peter sellers in 'being there'! totally handsome!
I don't think its bad tailoring, it looks like separation from the canvas that is typical of handset canvas, and not fused.
This is wonderful! Sad, you never see men like that around here (where I live).
The suit is so exquisite i didn't think anyone would wear a suit like this anymore. I've only seen suits like these in black and white photos of my great uncles and my grandad who wore the exact same ones.
google image Carlo Montanaro or see posts that Sat has with him (June 07) and you'll see that it is very intentional.. besides, the man clearly knows what he is doing